Christian Astrology Outline – Third House Questions.
Christian Astrology (1647) by William Lilly – Outlined by Rhys Chatham (2024).
- If the querent and his Brother, Neighbour or Sister shall agree and love each other.
- Of a brother that is absent.
- Of Reports, News, Intelligence, or fears, whether true or false, or in what sense it is best to take them? Whether they signify good or evil.
- If the rumors be true or false according to the ancients:
- Of counsel given, whether it be for good or evil.
- Of a short journey, if good to go, yea or no; which way intended.
- Chapter 30 Judgment upon the preceding figure.
- If a Report or Common Rumour were True or False.
Viz. of Brethern, sisters, Kindred, short Journeys.
Lilly’s treatment of third house questions mainly concerns siblings, close relatives (not parents) and neighbors, but later we see that it also discusses whether rumors and news one hears are true, or whether a short journey will be prosperous or not.
If the querent and his Brother, Neighbour or Sister shall agree and love each other.
Pg 188: L1 is querent, L3 is brother or sister.
- If L3 is a benevolent planet
- Of if in the Ascendant
- Or if a fortunate planet in H3
- Or if L1 & L3 are sextile or trine within orb
- Or if they are in mutual reception
- Or if L3 cast a sextile or trine to the cusp of the Ascendant or visa versa
Then there is no doubt there will be unity between querent and sibling or neighbor.
If a fortune be in the first house
- Or L1 beholds the cusp of H3
- AND L3 has no aspect to Ascendant (first house?) or its lord
- THEN the querent will be in good condition, but the problem will lie with the sibling.
- If Mars, Saturn or the south node are in the first house, it means that the querent is “evil conditioned” and the fault lies with him.
- If you find them in H3 and they are not in their essential dignities, then the querent should expect little good from his siblings. And even less if they are peregrine combust or in bad configuration with any planet. Even if things seem good at present, they won’t stay that way.
- If Saturn is in the third, it means the neighbors are “clowns” (?), kindred covetous and “sparing”; if Mars, neighbors thievish. Basically problems if a malefic or south node is in the 3rd.
Of a brother that is absent.
Lilly tells us that we have to turn the houses for this: H1 is the querent, and radical H3 represents the broth and becomes his turned or derived H1.
First look at the condition of L3, see what it is aspected to:
- If L3 is in H3 with no hard aspects to malefics, the brother is in health.
- But if malefics behold L3 with square or opposition without reception, the brother lives, but in great difficulty; if with reception, brother is in distress but will evade it.
- If fortunate ^planets behold L3 trine/sextile w/o reception or square/opposition with reception, brother is in good health and content to stay where he is;
- If fortunate planets behold L3 with reception, brother is in health and wants for nothing.
But if L3 is in H4 (derived H2 of brother) without aspect to malefic planets, he will try to make his fortune in the country he is when the chart was cast.
- If L3 is in H5 and joined (configured) to L5 and not impeded, it means the brother is probably quite merry and enjoying himself;
- If L3 is in H5 and conjunct or in soft aspects with a fortune, then the brother is in good condition;
- If l3 in H5 is void of course or conjunct infortunes w/o reception and those unfortunes are impeded, it means the brother is in bad health, “crazy” and not happy with where he is living, if L3 is in the ill houses (H6,H8,H12), then he isn’t happy but no ill will come from it.
- If L3 is in H8 and either conjunct or soft aspected to a fortune, then he is not well or indisposed, but nothing serious.
- If L3 is in H6 joined by hard aspects to infortunes, then absent brother is infirm. Judge the same if L6 is in H3 unless dignified.
- We have a question about H7 paragraph , we don’t understand the semi-colon.
- If brother be ill and L3 conjunct with L8 or entering combustion, brother is likely to die
- If L3 is in H7, brother is in the same country he went to and has not left (why?), and he is feeling so-so.
- If L3 is in L8, brother thinks that he will die; worse if L3 combust or conjunct L8 in H8 or aspect to malefics out of H8.
- If L3 is in H9, brother is gone from the place he first went, or he entered a religious order or employed by those in the order, or employed in some distant journey far from where he lives.
- If L3 is in H10, joined to fortunes by any good aspects especially with reception, then brother has found employment or good office or command in the place where he is, but if joined by infortunes or square or opposition or impeded by them to them, or if he’s combust in H10, he may be dead.
- If L3 is in H11, joined to fortunes by any good aspect or if he be conjunct with H11, then he is safe with a friend and it is pleasant and merry for him, but if he is afflicted by evil planets then he is malcontented and not pleased with his present situation.
- If L3 is in H12 and not afflicted and joined to fortunes with reception, then he trades in large animals (horses) cattle, is master of a horse or hoster (hotel), driver of the cattle to market, etc.…
- If L3 is unfortunate in H12, or in bad aspect to the infortunes, or in aspect to L8, or combust (all this in H12, right?), then he is not happy, doubts he will ever see his country again and will probably die there.
- If L3 be in L1, he is happy and merry, well pleased with where he is and well respected there (turned 11th house?).
- If L3 is in L2, he is probably a prisoner or is trapped there in some way. If L3 is retrograde, then it will be difficult for him to escape. (turned 12th house).
Lilly says he has been detailed because it is key to all the rest: If the question is about father then we dop the same as above accept father is H4. For a child H5, and so on.
Of Reports, News, Intelligence, or fears, whether true or false, or in what sense it is best to take them? Whether they signify good or evil.
Pg. 192:
- Lilly says that the ancients say these questions belong to the fifth house, others say they belong to “certain triplicities” that have dominion on signs ascending or descending (? On the third or fifth house cusps.
- Lilly found that during a time of war that the rumor was true IF the Moon in H1, H3, H10, H11 separated by a benevolent aspect from any planet, and then applying by sextile, trine or conjunction to the Lord of the Ascendant.
- However, if the Moon applied to L7 by any good aspect, enemies would have the victory.
- If the Moon was void of course, the rumor would come to nothing or be a lie or false.
- If both Moon and mercury were square or in opposition to each other, and neither of them cast a sextile or trine to L1, the news was false.
Pg 193: For the time to take the questions:
- Lilly to the time when he first heard the rumor
- If another proposed it, the time he heard the rumor
- Jupiter or Venus is in the Ascendant
- Or if the Moon or Mercury be in their essential dignities (and?) in trine or sextile to L11
It will be detrimental to you (or to whom the news concerns) if:
- L6, L8, or L12 is in the first house or in bad aspect to L1.
- Or if Mars or Saturn is retrograde in H1, or in hard aspect with L1, or casting a square or opposition to the Ascendant degree.
- If Saturn signifies the mischief: country friend have been plundered, cattle stolen (modern interpretation?)
- If Mars, someone has been cut off (“straggling parties”)
- Mercury: letters have miscarried.
- Jupiter or Venus (involved gentlefolk
- Lilly says to use common sense.
If the rumors be true or false according to the ancients:
The rumors are true if:
- Consider L1 and the Moon, if they are in an angle
- or if the dispositor of the Moon is in an angle and in a fixed sign
- or if any of these be in a succedent house and fixed sign
- or in good aspect with a fortunate planet i.e. sextile or trine with Jupiter, Venus or the Sun
Judge to the contrary if:
- L1 is afflicted by Infortunes
- Or cadent in house, even if essentially strong in sign.
Pg 194 – Rumors are for the most part true when:
- Angles in figure are in fixed signs, separating from Infortunes and applying to any fortunate planet, placed in any angle. Moon and mercury in fixed signs separating from Infortunes and in an angle.
If the Angles of H4 & H10 be fixed and the Moon received in them.
Rumors of evil will be false or turn into good things if:
- If one hears evil or bad news yet one of the fortunes is in H1 or the Moon be unfortunate, it is a strong argument that the rumor is false, and they will turn to good rather than evil.
- If Mercury is retrograde or in any other way afflicted, or of that planet to whom the Moon applies (that it be retrograde?), or to whom Mercury applies, esp. if either of those two are lords of the Ascendant.
If L1 is under the beams of the Sun the matter shall be kept secret and few will ever know the truth of it.
Of counsel given, whether it be for good or evil.
Erect chart for when the querent got the news.
Counsel is given with an honest heart if:
- Fortunate planet at MC or in H10 i.e. Su, Jupiter, Venus or North node, otherwise Moon applying to L1
Counsel is given with malintent if:
- Saturn, Mars or south node in in H10.
- Also, if the Ascendant is moveable (cardinal), the person giving the counsel is deceitful or treacherous.
Pg 195: Whether the querent have brother’s or sisters:
Better to do this from the querent’s nativity, but in a pinch, here is the way to do it with a horary:
- Will have siblings if:
- Cusp of H3 is a fruitful sign (water signs) or maybe if air signs.
- Brothers if a masculine sign
- Sisters if a feminine sign
- Some say the number of planets in H3 show the number of brothers and sisters, but Lilly doubts this
If the brethren will get along (unity among them)
- Look to the last aspect of L3 and L1 were in for indications of this.
- Look for benevolent or malefic planets in H1 or H3 for indications H1 = querent, H3 siblings
- With Saturn, Mars or south node in H3, signifies much discord with siblings.
Of a short journey, if good to go, yea or no; which way intended.
Pg. 195, 196:
See if L1 is swift or slow
- If L1 is in any of the dignities of L3
- Or with a benevolent planet posited in H3 (what does posited mean)
- If the moon applied to L3 or any planet posited in H3
- Or if the moon is in H3 and is sextile Ascendant
- or If Moon is square in signs of short ascension (acts as a sextile) (Cap-Gemini) in any house and casts a sextile (sextile is third house aspect) to the ascendant
- Or if Moon is swift in motion
Any of these is an indication that the querent will go on a short journey.
To know where the querent will go look at:
- H3 sign
- Sign where L3 is
- Judge which is the strongest by essential dignities (consider if this means the lords of the above houses)
Whichever is strongest, judge that sign by direction, i.e. is it a northern sign, etc.
Image from Christian Astrology, annotated by Deborah Houlding, pg 94 (used with permission)
Citizen of London went to the west of England and no news from him for many weeks. His brother wanted to know three things:
Was the brother living or dead? If dead was he killed by soldiers?
Chapter 30 Judgment upon the preceding figure.
According to Lilly:
- Ascendant is Capricorn and the querent was a Saturnine type of person, lean, spare of body.
- Venus is Lady of H3.
- Moon doesn’t aspect either signifier
- Venus not aspected by either mercury lord of radical H8 nor by Mars, Lord of turned H8.
- Moon separating from benefic Jupiter and applying to Sun at MC.
Lilly judged brother to be alive and in good health. (sun being general significator of good health).
Question 2 If alive, when should we hear of him?
Lilly’s response:
- Venus (at 28°Sag53) is applying by trine to Saturn (in original chart 29°Aries13), who is retrograde, so mutual application. Argument to hear from brother suddenly.
Where was the brother? And when he would come home.
- Lilly on pg. 198 says Sagittarius is a northeast sign.
- Lilly says Venus (L3) is leaving Sagittarius signifying northeast and moving to Capricorn, a southern sign, so brother was in the southeast part of the country
- Because Venus is not far from Ascendant and in the oriental quarter, Lilly judges a one- or two-day journey from London
- Venus left Sagittarius where she was peregrine entering Capricorn where she has dignity, judging brother left place where he was where he had had no possessions and coming back to London, where he had a house.
- Since only one degree to get out of Sag, a common sign, he judged one week he would be home.
- Came home Tuesday following, (chart was cast on the Friday) when Moon came to the body of Venus.
- The trine between and Saturn signifies a nice relationship between the brothers.
If a Report or Common Rumour were True or False.
Chapter 31 pg. 199 – 201
Reports were given out that the King had taken Cambridge. Was this rumor true or false?
This was in 1653 and there was a civil war going on between the Army of the King of England and its Parliament. Lilly was for the Parliament. The first house in this chart represented the forces of Parliament, and the seventh house the forces of the King.
Study group’s observations:
- L1 is Venus and highly dignified, Mars is in fall
- Moon is peregrine
- Mercury is square Mars
- Angles are moveable signs, not fixed
- Saturn on cusp of seventh and exactly square Mars on cups of MC
Lilly’s comments:
- Arguments for false rumor: Angles all moveable; Mars maltreating tenth house cusp; Saturn on H7 cusp.
- Further evidence of false rumor: Moon cadent and peregrine in Gemini.
- Favoring the forces of Parliament: north node in the first house and its Lord Venus exalted in Pisces.
- Lord of the enemy (seventh house) is Mars in fall, afflicted by a square with Saturn.
- Moon separating from H7 Jupiter and transferring light to H1 Lord Venus bodes well for Parliament forces.
- Mars and Saturn in square: enemy is full of division and treason.
Lilly judges from this that the rumor is false, Cambridge was not taken by the King’s forces.
Lilly then uses this chart to illustrate how the chart would have been judged had the question been: Whether the querent should have Brothers or Sisters?
- Scorpio on the cusp of H3 is a fruitful sign.
- Mars, the Lord of the third, is in Cancer, which is a fruitful sign/
- Moon applies to Venus in Pisces, also a fruitful sign.
Lilly judges that this argues for lots of brothers and sisters, but more sisters since all the significator signs are all feminine.
He goes on to say that since the” third house isn’t afflicted with no ill aspects between thee significators, that the querent will get along well with his siblings.
End of third house questions.
—ooOoo—